I have a problem

  • I have a Trix loc the French CC40100 for hauling TEE trains. This loc has a built in Trix decoder(21 pin) for DCC/Selectrix and DC and separate sound module on the board. On ZIMO this loc is running in one direction fine/normal and if I choose the other direction the head lights are switching from white to red to white to red to white........ and the loc is only moving during the brief sequence of white and stops on red and moves again on white and stops on red and so on. But on the Loc Maus and ECoS the CC40100 runs super without any problem. I must say that I have a Trix "rote Pfeil" and this is running with the Trix decoder very well without any problems.(Afterwards I change it with a Zimo decoder for using the HLU block system and still the sound module is working) Because the layout has a Zimo block system(HLU) I have to change this decoder(21 pin) in the CC40100 with a Zimo decoder(21 pin) for the C-Sinus motor ; I have done this but now the loc is doing nothing(???????????) even the lights are not working and also the sound is not working. I bought a ESU loc pilot V4 54614(21 pin and also this decoder has the possibility to be set to the HLU block system of Zimo ) and now the lights are working and if a change direction the lights are switching from red to white but now he jumps forward full speed; even if the speed control is open a little bit; in the direction of the red head lights for 2 till 3 meters and than he stops if a change the direction he will do the same and jumps also forward in the direction of the red headlights; I must say the sound is working as it should. What can be wrong.

  • ...und versuchsweise auf Deutsch, damit es für unsere digitalen Helfer vielleicht etwas einfacher wird:


    Mit Forumistengruss, Stefan

    _____________________________


    "Die HAG Jünger sind auf dem gleichen Niveau wie die Märklin Fundamentalisten angelangt, für alles wird die passende Ausrede und Erklärung gesucht warum gerade jetzt wieder ein Fehler entschuldbar ist."

    (Heutiger "HAG-Apostel" am 25.12.2013.)

  • Hello Janie


    the behavier of the Zimo-decoder seems strange. From distance and without knowing which are the CV-settings, it is difficult to locate the reason for this. As general information from Zimo for the C-Sinus-motor in Märklin- and Trix-locos see the instruction-manual on pages 63-64.
    For the ESU: did you deactivate the load compensation (Lastregelung) for use with the C-Sinus-motor in your loco? (> deactivate Bit 0 in CV 49, or: the programmed value of CV 49 should be an even number).


    Best regards
    Peter

  • Hello Janie


    Your problem seams to be a tricky-one! I have no experience with Zimo, Trix or the HLU-Block-System. But I allready had such praradox reactions in ESU 4 decoders - lamps on-off and stopping without any reason. The solution was in resetting the decoder with CV 8 = 8, than everything was fine. But then you have to programm all the CV's according to the needed values of your loco.


    May be, other members give you better advise!?
    Good luck! :thumbup:


    Christian


    @Stephan - thank you for translating - hope my answer is understandable without :ooo

    Unsere Modelleisenbahn ist ein Familienprojekt - um Zeit zusammen zu verbringen und um gemeinsame Projekte zu realisieren - vor allem aber zum Fahren, zum Bauen und auch zum Schauen! :rolleyes:

  • Thanks to the Administrator for the translation! Peter , I will try your recommendation of deactivating the load compensation for the ESU decoder and I will inform here about the outcome of it. About the Zimo decoder: it is possible that I used the wrong decoder not foreseen for the C-sinus motor, it was a spare decoder that I had; probably the not working of it should be explain it because in the manual on page 63(thank you for the link) it says that the decoders for C-sinus have an extra 5V for the board. christian , I did not reset the ESU decoder but I will follow your suggestion if deactivating of CV49 not works. Some off topic question, when I write my text I use spaces between the lines but when I preview the text than the text is without the spaces between the lines; what I do wrong or what must I do.

  • Hi!

    it says that the decoders for C-sinus have an extra 5V for the board.

    I didn't check page 63 in the manual.
    But I know that some boards for C Sinus need 5 V, taken from either AUX3 or AUX4. For those locos the decoder will be programmed to have AUX3 or AUX4 respectively permanently on.
    All ESU V3 or V4 decoders can do that.


    Load regulation must be turned off.


    Newer SDS locos do not need the AUX hack to get 5 V. For those locos SUSI must be enabled in the decoder. I think the V3 decoders do not support SUSI.

    Viele Grüsse
    Thomas
    6 rote Re 4/4 IV - mehr, als die SBB je hatten (hoffentlich habe ich jetzt alle Lackierungsvarianten)

  • Yesterday I tried to disconect the load compensation. The decoder accepted it but it changed nothing the behavior of the loc was the same. I tried than the automatic calibration with cv 54 and than the loc was running with jerks. After this I have done a "hard reset" with cv8 and tried to disconect the load compensation and got the answer E9. I tried again a hard reset wit CV8 and got the respons E9 and now the loc is doing nothing with the exception of switching on or off the headlights and rear lights. I am using a ZIMO system.

  • Hello Janie


    on a Zimo-system, "E9" means "problems with the programming"; with your Sinus-loco, that is normal, because the motor is not connected directly to the decoder, so there is no "feedback" after a CV-programming from the motor to the decoder, and that gives the error "E9".


    After a reset, AUX3 + AUX4 are deactivated. Without AUX3/AUX4, your loco can't move because the circuit for the sinus-motor has no power...


    Make sure to permanently activate at least AUX3 or AUX4 (depending your loco) and to deactivate the load compensation.


    Best regards
    Peter

  • Thanks for the info. But..... I looked up in the manual of LP 4 but I do not understand how to reactivate the AUX 3 and AUX 4. Somewhere is writen to do this in the "mapping" functions but is there no CV where you can activate both AUX's?

  • Hello Janie


    in the LP4-manual, the activation of AUX4 is written in chapter 11.5. But shortly: first you programme CV 31=16 and CV 32 = 2, then CV 266, CV 282, CV 298 and CV 314 all = 32 (for AUX 4; it would be 16 for AUX 3 or 48 for both AUX 3 and 4 together).


    Hope it will work.


    Happy Easter
    Peter

  • See chapter 11.5 in the manual.


    To active AUX4, set those six CVs:


    Beschreiben Sie folgende CVs mit den passenden Werten.Stellen Sie sicher, dass CV 31 den Wert 16 und CV 32 den Wert 2 enthält.
    CV Wert
    CV 266 32
    CV 282 32
    CV 298 32
    CV 314 32



    Peter was quicker than I ...

    Viele Grüsse
    Thomas
    6 rote Re 4/4 IV - mehr, als die SBB je hatten (hoffentlich habe ich jetzt alle Lackierungsvarianten)

  • Thank you for the info. I have done as you both explained and put the value's in the CV's like you both mentioned, the read out was either E9 o E4(even the read ut for the loc address was not working), but still the loc is not running. The only thing that is working is the sound and head/rear lights. But.............. I replaced back the Original TRIX decoder and the loc is also not running, but sound and lights are working and the the read out of CV's was here working.

  • I have been to the store where I bought the decoder( this is another store than where I bought the loc); the decoder still installed in the loc. The store has tried to activate the loc but even they where not able to run the locomotive, only the head lights where working and the sound is working. With an other out of the box LP4 the loc is still not running and the head lights and sound are working. The store keeper thinks that now something is wrong with the board of the loc.

  • The store keeper thinks that now something is wrong with the board of the loc.

    Installing the "wrong" decoder can lead to damages of either the loco or the decoder.


    Have you tried an ESU V4 decoder with activated SUSI as written in the instructions?
    Maybe nothing is damaged and it's just a case of using an inappropriate decoder or decoder configuration.

    Viele Grüsse
    Thomas
    6 rote Re 4/4 IV - mehr, als die SBB je hatten (hoffentlich habe ich jetzt alle Lackierungsvarianten)

  • The loc has been sended back to TRIX/MARKLIN. THe board is damaged due the fact of the "000" resistors, these resistors must be replaced There is a warning in the ZIMO decoder manual about this fact. In the ESU Locpilot 4.0 manual I found nothing about the problem with the "000" resistors

  • I once read that there were four different variations of the 21MTC socket - the 000 resistors are one problem.


    Trix locos have a "Trix decoder socket", ESU decoders have a "NEM decoder socket". Both are called 21MTC.


    As a warning to everybody: before installing a new decoder into a Trix or Märklin loco, make sure the decoder is appropriate. AFAIK some problems are specific to Trix locos with C Sine motor, so double double check whether the decoder suits the loco when converting any of those.



    Warnung an alle: Es gibt anscheinend vier Varianten der "21MTC"-Schnittstelle und beim Decodertausch muss man gründlich prüfen, ob der neue Decoder zur Lok passt. Besonders kritisch sind anscheinend Trix-Loks mit C-Sinus-Motor.


    Findet man in einer Märklin-Lok einen blauen Decoder, dann sind AUX3 und AUX4 immer unverstärkt und Ersatz durch ESU-Decoder sollte problemlos möglich sein.
    Findet man rote oder grüne Decoder, dann sind AUX3 und AUX4 manchmal verstärkt und manchmal unverstärkt, also passt manchmal ein 60942 und manchmal passt ein ESU-Decoder.
    Die Modellbahn mit dem klaren System ...
    Bei Trix-Loks wurden D&H-Decoder verwendet, bei Märklin-Loks ESU-Decoder - mit unterschiedlich bestückten Lokplatinen.

    Viele Grüsse
    Thomas
    6 rote Re 4/4 IV - mehr, als die SBB je hatten (hoffentlich habe ich jetzt alle Lackierungsvarianten)

  • It seems also that some TRIX locs of that type have a different board some have them with "000" resistors and others have them with normal resistors. I knew someone who has the same loc and put a ZIMO decoder in it and it runs fine, but I do not know if the board has regular resistors or the "000" resistors.(I can not ask it because I do not see him anymore) It seems also the C-Sinus motor is no longer used in the Trix/Märklin loc because the starting voltage of this kind of motor is 7v and on regular DC.

  • I have given the loc to the shop and they have sended back to the TRIX/MARKLIN importer some days after my posting in May. Last week I asked the shop owner if he got some information about the repair. His anwser was the following: If they have still the printed board for the Trix than they can repair it; because Marklin/Trix has stoped production of C or Sinus motors othewise you get a credit slip because they can repair it. He told me that he got in January this year a credit slip for the Marklin locmotive who also went broken due the same problem. I told him if my locomotive is beyond repair I prefer my locomotive back unrepaired iso a credit slip.